Jacob Aaron Moore.

[p.risboy]

Looking fo death/birth of Jacob Aaron Moore. He is on my Grandmothers birth cert. in 1874.
Residence - 4, Buckingham St. Hodge Lane, Salford. in Nov.1874. Occupation - Joiner.

Shown as deceased on my Grandmothers marriage cert. on Sept 1896. occ. Joiner.

Wife - Jane Elizabeth Moore. (formerly Williams)b.1854. occ. Cotton Winder.

Children - Rebecca b.1874
- Walter b.1877

Wife and children show up on 1861 census with father/grandfather, John E.Williams.


Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

What age roughly was Jacob Aaron Moore?

Did your grandmother stay in Salford or did she marry elsewhere?

Ben

[juliejtp]

Hi Steve,

Heres the marriage

Year 1870

Jacob Aaron Moore
Jane Elizabeth Williams is also listed

Oct/Nov/Dec 1/4
District Salford
Vol 8d
Page 47

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve

What age roughly was Jacob Aaron Moore?

Did your grandmother stay in Salford or did she marry elsewhere?

Ben


Hi Ben, G.grandfather Jacob was born about 1850 ish. but that is only a calculated guess, because his wife, Jane Elizabeth, was born 1853.

My grandmother Rebecca Moore, was married in the county of Salford. Parish of Christchurch.
Sub district Regent rd. 31st Oct.1874.
Their residence is shown as 301, Liverpool St.

Steve.:)

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve,

Heres the marriage

Year 1870

Jacob Aaron Moore
Jane Elizabeth Williams is also listed

Oct/Nov/Dec 1/4
District Salford
Vol 8d
Page 47

Thanks Julie, I am thinking an Irish search now maybe on, 1845-1855 oh dear famine times.:'(
Will have to keep searching for his birth and hope he was born UK. I still can't find his death.
Oh well, here we go again. Wedding cert. ordered.

Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi

The marriage cert is the next step. What makes you think that he was born in Ireland? Have you got him on any censuses?

Ben

[p.risboy]

Hi

The marriage cert is the next step. What makes you think that he was born in Ireland? Have you got him on any censuses?

Ben

The short answer is no, benny.:'( just marriage.:)

Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi

If he was born in Ireland c1850 then it may be tricky as civil registration didnt start until 1864 although all Non Catholic marriages were registered from 1845. Many parish registers for Ireland were destroyed in a fire in 1922.

Ben

[p.risboy]

Hi

If he was born in Ireland c1850 then it may be tricky as civil registration didnt start until 1864 although all Non Catholic marriages were registered from 1845. Many parish registers for Ireland were destroyed in a fire in 1922.

Ben


That was my concern Benny, so will wait for the marriage cert. and see what it says. Luckily he was married in England.:)

Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi

Lets just hope that he wasnt born in Ireland.

Have you tried looking for him on the censuses at all Steve?

Ben

[p.risboy]

Hi

Lets just hope that he wasnt born in Ireland.

Have you tried looking for him on the censuses at all Steve?

Ben

Yes Benny, But perhaps a younger pair of eyes might see something I missed.:o

Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi

They are elusive. I am having trouble locating them on the censuses of 1871 and 1881 at the minute.

As your eyes are older, that means they have had more experience with seeing things :D

Ben

[p.risboy]

Hi

They are elusive. I am having trouble locating them on the censuses of 1871 and 1881 at the minute.

As your eyes are older, that means they have had more experience with seeing things :D

Ben

Thats why they're worn out Benny, or are you being polite.:biggrin: :biggrin:

Steve.:)

[juliejtp]

There is a birth for a Jacob Moore 1878 district Salford, death 1879 born abt 1879 district Salford, so if he is a child of Jane and Jacobs, Jacob was still around 1877/1878.

[p.risboy]

There is a birth for a Jacob Moore 1878 district Salford, death 1879 born abt 1879 district Salford, so if he is a child of Jane and Jacobs, Jacob was still around 1877/1878.

Don't think that works Julie. If this Jacob was born 1878, that makes hm 4yrs older than his daughter Rebecca b.1874:D

My Jacob was born c.1850.

Steve.:)

[juliejtp]

Steve,

I didnt mean Jacob Aaron Moore. Just thought is this one belongs to him and Jane then Jacon snr was still around at that time.

[p.risboy]

Dteve,

I didnt mean Jacob Aaron Moore. Just thought is this one belongs to him and Jane then Jacon snr was still around at that time.


Sorry Julie, makes perfect sense. The tradition of naming sons after fathers.:rolleyes:

I did seem strange having only 2 children, when the norm was a lot more.

I really do need a severe kipper slapping.redf) :)

Thanks Julie, a great help as always, Steve.:)

[p.risboy]

Wedding cert is now in my grubby hands.

Married 9th. Oct. 1870. Parish of St.Simon, Salford.

Jacob Aaron Moore aged 19. Batchelor. occ. Soldier. Salford. Father-Jacob Aaron Moore occ. Labourer.

Jane Elizabeth Williams aged 17. Spinster occ. not known. Bridgewater St. Father-John Williams. occ. Packer.

Witnesses-Emmanuel Houghton. (His X mark). and Mary Wissdle or Windle.

Still not much further forward.

Steve.:)

[juliejtp]

Hi Steve,

Have you looked at the 1871 census? Jacob Moore born abt 21 Chatham Kent, solider at Wellington Barracks, Elton, Lancashire.

[juliejtp]

Hi Steve,

Maybe be someting or not. there is a Jacob Moore in 1851 born abt 1819 Glaston Norfolk. He is private /Army at Chatham, wife Rebecca but the sons name is William age 8mths.

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve,

Have you looked at the 1871 census? Jacob Moore born abt 21 Chatham Kent, solider at Wellington Barracks, Elton, Lancashire.

Yes, I saw that a couple of weeks ago. But now I know he was a soldier at the time, and not a Joiner, I will investigate a bit further.

Many thanks, Julie.

PS. Just spoke to my sister, and she is sure that they were Quakers. Hmmmmm?

Steve.:)

[p.risboy]

This entry shows him as unmarried in 1871. Married in 1870. ?

Freaky just checked this:-

http://www.fusiliersmuseum-lancashire.org.uk/history_timeline.html

and found a reference to Sir John Moore 1809. Brrrrrrrrrrr

Someone is trying to tell me something.

Steve.:)

[juliejtp]

Hi Sir, sorry I mean Steve,

Thought the marriage certificate would make things easier eek).

Hopefully the Quaker records will throw up something.

[p.risboy]

Hi Sir, sorry I mean Steve,

Thought the marriage certificate would make things easier eek).

Hopefully the Quaker records will throw up something.

Hi Julie, I think my can of worms is about to spill.

Have checked the 1851 census for Chatham, which I think is where you got William 8 months.

There seems to be a lot of Moore's, but no Jacob(1851).
Now comes the stretch. Could he not have been born yet, but was about to be at the time of the census.

For some reason, I can't find the same location in the 1861 census. If I could, and he's there, he should be 10-11yrs old.

Could you please have a look for me.

Quaker records, where.??

Thanks, Lord Steve.:biggrin:

[juliejtp]

Steve,

Heres a couple of links.

http://www.quaker.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=90018

http://www.cyndislist.com/quaker.htm

On the 1851 census putting in surname Moore using soundex, with 5yrs either side of 1852, Chatham brought up zilch for Jacob.

[juliejtp]

The only other Jacob Moore I could find occ joiner born abt 1847 is in the Metropolitan Asylum in Surrey, but he is still there in 1901 under Jacob Thomas Moore, so thats rules him out.

[p.risboy]

Oh well, Quaker connection did not work out, must have 'practiced' on the quiet. (no pun intended)
From soldier to joiner, is still baffling me. Did he come out of the army and move to Salford ?
Cannot find any army records either.
Perhaps as a joiner he made his own coffin and buried himself.:)

Where is the old s*d. Usually when I curse someone they turn up.

Steve.:)

[p.risboy]

There is a birth for a Jacob Moore 1878 district Salford, death 1879 born abt 1879 district Salford, so if he is a child of Jane and Jacobs, Jacob was still around 1877/1878.

Hi Julie,

Now have birth and death certs for Jacob Moore b.1878 - d.1879.

Birth. 17/9/1878.
Father - Jacob Aaron Moore. occ. Joiner.
Mother - Jane Elizabeth Moore,(Williams) birth informant.

Death.15/3/1879.
Father - Jacob Moore. occ. Joiner.
Mother - Jane Moore. death informant.

Same address on both certs.

I cannot make out the cause of death -?? 'Maxalnius' ?? - ?? 'masalmus' ??. Not that it really matters.
------------------------------------------
Hi Benny,

Also have a birth cert for Jacob Thomas Moore.
b.17/4/1847
Portsea Island Union.
Sub.reg. Landport and Southsea.
Radnor Street, Southsea.

Father - Jacob Moore. occ. painter.
Mother - Maria Moore. formerly, Maria O'Brien.

Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

It looks like Jacob got committed in about 1880 then if the one in 1881 in Caterham is the right one, which I am sure it is. Checking their records will confirm this.

Ben

[juliejtp]

Fingers xxxxxxxxxxxxx Steve that the records will shed some light.

:)

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve

It looks like Jacob got committed in about 1880 then if the one in 1881 in Caterham is the right one, which I am sure it is. Checking their records will confirm this.

Ben


Ben,

Would you believe that the records for this asylum have not survived.:mad:

There are some general admin papers, but not much else.:rolleyes:

Have contacted The Welcome Trust, and hope that they might help.:)

I did notice on the 1901 entry for him, as to marital status. It was unknown, but was crossed out and an 'M' for married inserted.
So I ask myself, how did they find out his marital staus. My conclusion to that question is maybe a relative visited (the wife). And so put the record straight. Or is that wishful thinking.:)


Steve.:)

[p.risboy]

On the 1881 and 1891 census his marital status is listed as 'unknown'.
On the 1901 census he is listed as unknown, and then it has been crossed through and an 'M' for married inserted.

Why would that happen.

If he has been 'unknown' for nearly 20yrs, what could have happened for it to be altered.
Also his 'status' changed from Lunatic to Imbecile.
Would that mean he was not a threat to himself and others.?
Or has he just become institutionalised.?

Died in 1908, Godstone, Surrey. A couple of miles from Caterham. Death cert ordered.

Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

The death cert should help. Census records can be ambiguous and if Jacob was in a mental state he probably didnt know his left from his right. If he gave NK as his birthplace yet I have found that it was Hampshire, and if he thought his middle name was Aaron instead of Thomas, then he was probably very mixed up.

Ben

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve

The death cert should help. Census records can be ambiguous and if Jacob was in a mental state he probably didnt know his left from his right. If he gave NK as his birthplace yet I have found that it was Hampshire, and if he thought his middle name was Aaron instead of Thomas, then he was probably very mixed up.

Ben

Hi Ben,
I was thinking more of his marital status than his birthplace. Why should it change after 20yrs.? And be altered in 1901.

Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi

I think we need to try and find Jane Moore's death. This may help a lot.

Ben

[p.risboy]

Hi

I think we need to try and find Jane Moore's death. This may help a lot.

Ben

Took the thought from my head.:biggrin:

Steve.:)

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

If he was an imbecile then he probably dodnt know whether her was married or not. He may have lived totally in the past.

Ben

[p.risboy]

Hi

I think we need to try and find Jane Moore's death. This may help a lot.

Ben

Hi Ben,

crankypants found Jane in 1891 and down as married.

Steve.:)