Absalom whoever

[DaveHam9]

Hello,

Marriages Mar 1853
PALMER Absalom Keynsham 5c 1176
PEACOCK Mary Ann Keynsham 5c 1176

Absalom may have been born as Absalom GUY abt 1827 Bitton, Gloucester

Mary Ann b. abt 1830 Oldland, Gloucester

Daughter brought up by her grandparents:

Births Mar 1856
PALMER Rachael W Bromwich 6b 599

I have no death for Mary Ann. I have her with parents in 1841 and 1851.


I'm wondering if this death can be ruled out as that of the Absalom who married Mary Ann in 1853:

Deaths Jun 1858
Guy Absalom Stourbridge 6c 95

Regards,

Dave

[barbarajoh]

Dave
There is an Absolam Guy born Stourbridge in Oct 1855, more likely to be the one who died 3 years later as I can't find an Absalom or Absolam Guy in a census before that time.

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Hello Barbara,

Thanks. That is probably the matching birth for that death.

Still leaves two questions. What happened to Absalom & Mary Ann after the birth of Rachel and where was Absalom in 1851?

GUY Absalom baptised Mangotsfield 2 Dec 1827, parents George & Rachael, father a collier in Syston [Siston, Gloucester].

I don't have the marriage so I have no idea if George was a PALMER or a GUY. :) I presume Absalom was born before they married hence the name change. I have no idea when he reverted to PALMER and if he want back to using GUY or not, hence the search for a death under either name.

Regards,

Dave

[barbarajoh]

Found him finally!

Absalom Gay
[Absalom Palmer]
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Gay
Mother's name: Rachel Gay
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Siston, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Pucklechurch
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Chipping Sodbury
Sub-registration district: Chipping Sodbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 2
Piece: 1956
Folio: 86
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
George Gay 60
Rachel Gay 52
Absalom Gay 23
Elizabeth Gay 19
Samuel Gay 12
Sarah Gay 18
Mary Gay 4


Let me know if you need any of the individuals info

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Hello Barbara,

Thank you very much. Not chasing any siblings thanks so it's ok.

Perhaps Rachel's maiden name was PALMER. I suppose if he was born before they married then he in turn married using his mother's name.

No one has found any trace of Absalom or Mary Ann after the birth of Rachel. That looks like staying a brick wall.

Regards,

Dave

[DaveHam9]

I can't find the marriage in England, Bristol records or NC records databases.

No sign of a death for Absalom or a remarriage for Mary Ann.

The word is stuck.

[barbarajoh]

I don't like to confuse you (or maybe I do!) but this family in 1841 look kind of like the same lot. Just to complicate matters


Absolom Osboone
[Absolom Osborne]
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Gender: Male
Where born: Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Siston
Hundred: Puckle Church
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Keynsham
Sub-registration district: Bitton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 363
Book: 4
Folio: 24
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
George Osboone 50
Rachel Osboone 40
George Osboone 25
Ann Osboone 20
Henry Osboone 15
Absolom Osboone 13
Rachel Osboone 12
Felix Osboone 11
Elisabeth Osboone 9
Samuel Osboone 2
Sarah Osboone 4 Mo

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

:2fun:

Why do you think I set the title as 'Absalom whoever' ?

Thanks Barbara. After my LEWTON/LEAR/PEACOCK/HODGES Bitton family with 5 illegitimate children it does not surprise me. Mother and father both illegitimate and the birth of an illegitimate son. That took some sorting out.

I currently have him in my tree as PALMER because that's the name in the 1853 marriage but perhaps I should change it to 'whoever' until this is sorted, if it can be.

[DaveHam9]

I tried for a baptism for Felix and can't find one so far. Found this one:

Rachel Osborne
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 30 May 1830 Siston,​ Gloucester,​ England
residence: Siston,​ Gloucester,​ England
parents: George Osborne,​ Rachel

There are a few other baptisms but no maiden name on them for mother Rachel.

[DaveHam9]

Is this a different family?

George Masters Palmer
England Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 29 Dec 1800 Bitton,​ Gloucester,​ England
spouse: Rachel Smallcombe


Hannah Palmer
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 16 Feb 1824 Siston,​ Gloucester,​ England
residence: Gloucester,​ England
parents: George Palmer,​ Rachel

Edward Somerell Palmer
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 30 Jan 1825 Oldland,​ Gloucester,​ England
residence: Oldland,​ Gloucester,​ England
parents: George Palmer,​ Rachel

[DaveHam9]

There is a Samuel in 1841 who would fit except for surname:

Samuel Gay
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 20 Aug 1838 Siston,​ Gloucester,​ England
residence: Siston,​ Gloucester,​ England
parents: George Gay,​ Rachel

There is this one but age does not fit with census:

Samuel Osborne
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 07 Jan 1836 Siston,​ Gloucester,​ England
residence: Siston,​ Gloucester,​ England
parents: George Osborne,​ Rachel


and this one from the Bristol database:

name: Samuel Osborne Or Gay
event: Christening
event date: 02 Jan 1836
event place: Syston, St Anne, Gloucestershire, England
gender:
age:
christening date:
marriage date:
marital status:
burial date:
father: George Osborne Or Gay
mother: Rachel Osborne Or Gay
spouse:
spouse's marital status:
spouse's father:
spouse's mother:
film number: 4277511
digital folder number: 4277511
image number: 00088

[DaveHam9]

How many night's sleep will I lose over this? :2fun:

We need Rachel's maiden name and the marriage date.

This might take about 3 weeks.

[DaveHam9]

We have Rachel age 40 in 1841 and 52 in 1851 so this fits:

name: Rachel Gay
event: Burial
event date: 28 Feb 1869
event place: Pucklechurch, St Thomas a Becket, Gloucestershire, England
gender:
age: 68
christening date:
marriage date:
marital status:
burial date:
father:
mother:
spouse:
spouse's marital status:
spouse's father:
spouse's mother:
film number: 4277497
digital folder number: 4277497
image number: 00009


I'd like a look up for the remains of the family in 1861 please.

[DaveHam9]

I'm getting nowhere whatsoever with whoever. :2fun:

Can't find enough in FS to sort this out. Probably needs access to PR on disc for solution.

[barbarajoh]

Felix and Henry in 1851

STONE, John Head Married M 28 1823 Coal Miner
Liston
Gloucestershire
STONE, Ann Wife Married F 29 1822
Liston
Gloucestershire
STONE, Henry Son M 1 1850
Pucklechurch
Gloucestershire
OSBORNE, Henry Nephew Unmarried M 26 1825 Coal Miner
Liston
Gloucestershire
OSBORNE, Felix Nephew Unmarried M 23 1828 Coal Miner
Liston
Gloucestershire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
1956 Folio:
87 Page:
3 Registration District:
Chipping Sodbury

Civil Parish:
Pucklechurch Municipal Borough:
Address:
Coalpit Road, Pucklechurch County:
Gloucestershire

Barbara

[barbarajoh]

and in 61 says he is born Somerset.

Felix Osborn
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Osborn
Gender: Male
Where born: N, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Mangotsfield
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England



Registration district: Keynsham
Sub-registration district: Oldland
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 65
Piece: 1699
Folio: 99
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Felix Osborn 32
Mary Osborn 27
Henry Osborn 8
Amelia Osborn 5
Silas Osborn 3
John Smith 15


Barbara

[barbarajoh]

And ends up in jail for larceny from his masters.

Felix Osborne
Date of Trial: 3 Jul 1855
Trial Year: 1855
Location of Trial: Gloucestershire, England
Sentence: Imprisonment


Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Hello Barbara,

Thank you very much.

Yes, the area where this mob and the LEARs live is sometimes given as Somerset.

We might be able to make some progress soon. ;)

Regards,

Dave

[barbarajoh]

Rachel in 1861


Rachael Gay
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bitton, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Pucklechurch
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Chipping Sodbury
Sub-registration district: Chipping Sodbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Piece: 1743
Folio: 81
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
Rachael Gay 60
Mary Gay 13
Joseph Leonard 23
William Gardener 18

The last two are lodgers

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Hello Barbara,

Thank you very much.

I have some info to post tomorrow that will blow this wide open. :2fun:

[barbarajoh]

That sounds intiguing!

Barbara:rolleyes:

[DaveHam9]

It makes for an 'interesting' family. :2fun:

[DaveHam9]

Hello Barbara,

I hope this makes sense. :2fun:

The Bristol and Avon Marriage and Birth CDs:

7.03.1790 GEORGE baseborn son of ANN OSBORNE at SISTON

11.11.1791 ANN OSBORNE married HENRY GAY at SISTON

21.12.1828 OSBORNE GEORGE WID married RACHEL PALMER WID at St Mary Redcliffe Bristol


It seems to fit. eek)

George born 1790 named OSBORNE after his mother. Ann marries in 1791 and her married name becomes GAY.

George uses the name OSBORNE in 1841 but by 1851 is using GAY.
George marries, then marries again in 1828 to Rachel.

Absalom is born in 1827 so he starts off as OSBORNE in 1841, then GAY in 1851, but when he marries in 1853 he uses his mother's name PALMER.

Regards,

Dave

[barbarajoh]

Well done Sherlock! Sounds perfectly reasonable to me!eek)

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Hello Barbara,

That explanation fits but does ignore something :rolleyes: which we should check.

Can another George OSBORNE b. 1790 Siston be found in 1841 to fit this one:

12.08.1782 OSBORNE GEORGE married SUSANNAH PALMER at Siston

22.08.1790 GEORGE son of GEORGE and SUSANNAH OSBORNE baptised at Siston

Regards,

Dave

[DaveHam9]

I've looked again using all three possible names and can't see a death for Absalom or spouse Mary Ann.

[barbarajoh]

There are two others born around the right time but in Clifton which is nearer Gloucester. Of course the other George could have died. But it will leave a nasty taste unless you can solve it. Maybe your George didn't marry twice, perhaps it was the first one. Who did he marry?

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Barbara.

Clifton is too far. Bitton/Siston/Hanham/Oldland is the area.

George son of George & Susannah could have died before 1841. I don't know who he may have married.

Apart from the deaths of Absalom & spouse there are several other gaps still but they might remain so.

We have Rachel spouse of George in 1861 and also have her burial record. We know she married twice and that her first married name was PALMER. That's all we know. It was 2nd marriage for both in 1828.

[DaveHam9]

This is a problem:

name: Hannah Palmer
event: Christening
event date: 16 Feb 1824
event place: Syston, St Anne, Gloucestershire, England
gender:
age:
christening date:
marriage date:
marital status:
burial date:
father: George Palmer
mother: Rachel Palmer
spouse:
spouse's marital status:
spouse's father:
spouse's mother:
film number: 4277511
digital folder number: 4277511
image number: 00046

[DaveHam9]

There is this one I found previously:

George Masters Palmer
England Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 29 Dec 1800 Bitton,​ Gloucester,​ England
spouse: Rachel Smallcombe


Can't see a baptism for Rachel that fits.

Ok that can't be Rachel's 1st marriage. Age at death was 68 in 1869. So 1st marriage between 1817 and 1828.

Only one I can find but Bristol:

George Palmer
England Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 20 May 1821 St. James Parish,​ Bristol,​ Gloucester,​ England
spouse: Rachel Summerill

[barbarajoh]

Her first marriage could have been to George Palmer, they did like to do that to confuse us all these years later.

Barbara:2fun:

[DaveHam9]

We are in luck - born 1790:

Deaths Dec 1857
Gay George Chipping Sodbury 6a 11[0_]

name: George Gay
event: Burial
event date: 20 Dec 1857
event place: Pucklechurch, St Thomas a Becket, Gloucestershire, England
gender:
age: 67
christening date:
marriage date:
marital status:
burial date:
father:
mother:
spouse:
spouse's marital status:
spouse's father:
spouse's mother:
film number: 4277495
digital folder number: 4277495
image number: 00082

[DaveHam9]

Hello Barbara,

If we are right then there is one thing I'd like please - occupation for George senior in 1841 and 1851. Should be coal miner / collier or similar.

Absalom baptised Mangotsfield 2 Dec 1827, parents George & Rachael, father a collier in Syston.

Regards,

Dave

[barbarajoh]

Hi Dave,

Yes he was a coal miner both census. And in the 1841 next door is a Henry Gay and his wife Ann and their children. Henry is a coalminer too and aged 30

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Ok, thanks Barbara.

What happened to Absalom and spouse Mary Ann after 1856 remains a mystery.

[barbarajoh]

I have tried lots of different options. Got excited over a marriage in 1866 but that one was born 1845. Have tried just Absolam with no surname but absolutely nothing coming up.

End of trail, I am afraid.

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Barbara. Will remain a mystery.

Don't think they were long distance swimmers.

I'll stay away from Gloucestershire for a few months. :D

What county is next? ;)

[barbarajoh]

Lets do some Scottish and preferably the Borders! My area of expertise :2fun:

Barbara

[DaveHam9]

Lets do some Scottish and preferably the Borders! My area of expertise :2fun:

Barbara

I'll see what I can find but it might be a bit further south. :2fun:

[mopea]

Ok, thanks Barbara.

What happened to Absalom and spouse Mary Ann after 1856 remains a mystery.

Hello Dave,
I have not been on the forum for a while now but I was in contact with you regarding the Daniel and Ann Peacock connection. I just came across this post regarding Absalom and it is quite strange because my friend and I did quite a lot of searching for him and he appears to be somewhat of an enigma with his name changes. We know that he married Mary Ann Peacock who was the daughter of James and Hannah Peacock of Mount Hill a different line of Peacocks than Daniel and Ann (as far as I know). He married her in 1853 Keynsham (which comes under either Somersetshire or Gloucestershire depending on the year as these counties change about over the years) that is why you will not find it under Bristol as Bristol was its own county.
Absalom Palmer and Mary Ann then move to West Bromwich, county of Staffordshire as he was a miner and that was a big mining area. Their daughter Rachel was born 23rd January 1856 in West Bromwich and I believe I had a death for Mary Ann for that year or not long after, I will have to search it out for you.
When she died Absalom must have brought the daughter back to Mount Hill, Gloucestershire where she was brought up by James and Hannah Peacock.
But then here is where is gets more complicated, (as with a lot of things with the Peacocks), Rachel married Joseph Peacock son of Aaron Peacock (the market gardener and brother to your relation who went to Australia) (Elizabeth Lewton) so in fact Rachel and Joseph who had one child named Roland, inherit the market garden business from Aaron Peacock senior.
As for Absalom he remains a mystery as to where he went; there is another Absalom Palmer who lived in Hanham but it is not him. Also Absalom had a bit of a chequered past as we found that he was sentenced to 3 months hard labour for grand larceny July 1st 1851 before he married, but then he could have changed his ways after that.
I hope this is of some interest to you.
Mopea

[DaveHam9]

Hello Mopea,

Been a long time since I've thought about Peacocks. :biggrin:

That seems to fit with what I now have in my tree.

Thanks for bits like this I didn't have:

...inherit the market garden business from Aaron Peacock senior.

If you have a death for Mary Ann that would be great.

Regards,

Dave

[DaveHam9]

I have Ro(w)land in the census but didn't actually enter him in my tree.

I've added him now:

Births Sep 1886
Peacock Roland Keynsham 5c 643

But can't see an obvious death.

[mopea]

I have Ro(w)land in the census but didn't actually enter him in my tree.

I've added him now:

Births Sep 1886
Peacock Roland Keynsham 5c 643

But can't see an obvious death.

Roland died 1963 age 78 and his wife Rosa died 1960 age 79, they still lived in Mount Hill, Hanham.